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	<title>Comments for Fraud Advice</title>
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	<link>http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk</link>
	<description>Forensic accounting and fraud investigation</description>
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		<title>Comment on What Is The National Fraud Authority Doing For The Fight Against Fraud? by Richard Davies</title>
		<link>http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/fsa/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Davies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/?p=100#comment-40</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s always interesting to get the varying perspectives of delegates at NWFF conferences. The NWFF are keen to understand what people in the North West think about NFA initiatives, so that we can provide constructive feedback, criticism and suggestion to the Authority. To take part in the debate, please register at www.northwestfraudforum.co.uk - the forum link is on the top right hand side of the NWFF home page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s always interesting to get the varying perspectives of delegates at NWFF conferences. The NWFF are keen to understand what people in the North West think about NFA initiatives, so that we can provide constructive feedback, criticism and suggestion to the Authority. To take part in the debate, please register at <a href="http://www.northwestfraudforum.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.northwestfraudforum.co.uk</a> &#8211; the forum link is on the top right hand side of the NWFF home page.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What Is The National Fraud Authority Doing For The Fight Against Fraud? by Peter Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/fsa/comment-page-1/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/?p=100#comment-39</guid>
		<description>We were pleased to be invited to speak to the North West Fraud Forum at its annual conference in Bolton about the work of the National Fraud Authority. We took the opportunity to talk about the key achievements that the organisation has been delivering in response to the National Fraud Strategy, which we published in March 2009.  

It has been a busy time for the NFA, with an ongoing campaign to recruit specialist permanent staff for the next stages of the organisation’s delivery, which involves refocusing activity from strategy to delivery.  One of the main projects for the organisation and key discussion point at the North West Forum was Action Fraud, the national fraud reporting centre, which currently is being rolled out regionally.   

In a recent report published by the NFA in December 2009 entitled ‘A Better Deal for Fraud Victims’, which surveyed the largest number of fraud victims to date in the UK, it was revealing that  91 percent of those interviewed wanted a centralised service to report fraud and receive specialist support.  The report also showed that no clear path to reporting had existed, identifying over 15 agencies who would take some report of fraud. 

It was for these types of reasons why the Government’s National Fraud Review 2006 specifically indicated a central point for reporting should be established.  Action Fraud provides such a service.  If a person suspects a fraud crime has been committed against them, they can call the Action Fraud contact centre to report where they will receive a crime number and advice.  If appropriate they are referred to Victim Support for further help.  

Although not every crime that is reported will be individually investigated, the information can lead to stopping fraud at its roots.  The National Fraud Intelligence Bureau, based at the City of London Police collates the information reported to Action Fraud to create and provide intelligence packages to police forces to enable them to conduct investigations.

As national lead force on fraud, the City of London Police also provides training and support to other forces in fraud investigation.

In his article, Mr Jenner cited a perfect example of Action Fraud at work with the discovery of the alleged bogus clothing company through a spurt of reporting to the contact centre.  

Not all of the work the NFA has carried out in its two years of existence is as public facing as Action Fraud, however, it is no less important.  Initiatives with key partners to encourage data and information sharing is vital to all of the counter-fraud community’s activity, as is ensuring we have as accurate a benchmarking process as possible in place (NFA Annual Fraud Indicator) to ensure we can see the trends and know when we have succeeded.

Please visit our website www.attorneygeneral.gov.uk/nfa to find out more about the work of the NFA or give me a call on 020 3356 1066.     

Peter Wilson
Director of Engagement
National Fraud Authority</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We were pleased to be invited to speak to the North West Fraud Forum at its annual conference in Bolton about the work of the National Fraud Authority. We took the opportunity to talk about the key achievements that the organisation has been delivering in response to the National Fraud Strategy, which we published in March 2009.  </p>
<p>It has been a busy time for the NFA, with an ongoing campaign to recruit specialist permanent staff for the next stages of the organisation’s delivery, which involves refocusing activity from strategy to delivery.  One of the main projects for the organisation and key discussion point at the North West Forum was Action Fraud, the national fraud reporting centre, which currently is being rolled out regionally.   </p>
<p>In a recent report published by the NFA in December 2009 entitled ‘A Better Deal for Fraud Victims’, which surveyed the largest number of fraud victims to date in the UK, it was revealing that  91 percent of those interviewed wanted a centralised service to report fraud and receive specialist support.  The report also showed that no clear path to reporting had existed, identifying over 15 agencies who would take some report of fraud. </p>
<p>It was for these types of reasons why the Government’s National Fraud Review 2006 specifically indicated a central point for reporting should be established.  Action Fraud provides such a service.  If a person suspects a fraud crime has been committed against them, they can call the Action Fraud contact centre to report where they will receive a crime number and advice.  If appropriate they are referred to Victim Support for further help.  </p>
<p>Although not every crime that is reported will be individually investigated, the information can lead to stopping fraud at its roots.  The National Fraud Intelligence Bureau, based at the City of London Police collates the information reported to Action Fraud to create and provide intelligence packages to police forces to enable them to conduct investigations.</p>
<p>As national lead force on fraud, the City of London Police also provides training and support to other forces in fraud investigation.</p>
<p>In his article, Mr Jenner cited a perfect example of Action Fraud at work with the discovery of the alleged bogus clothing company through a spurt of reporting to the contact centre.  </p>
<p>Not all of the work the NFA has carried out in its two years of existence is as public facing as Action Fraud, however, it is no less important.  Initiatives with key partners to encourage data and information sharing is vital to all of the counter-fraud community’s activity, as is ensuring we have as accurate a benchmarking process as possible in place (NFA Annual Fraud Indicator) to ensure we can see the trends and know when we have succeeded.</p>
<p>Please visit our website <a href="http://www.attorneygeneral.gov.uk/nfa" rel="nofollow">http://www.attorneygeneral.gov.uk/nfa</a> to find out more about the work of the NFA or give me a call on 020 3356 1066.     </p>
<p>Peter Wilson<br />
Director of Engagement<br />
National Fraud Authority</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fraud and the Post Office Horizon Computer by admin</title>
		<link>http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/fraud-and-the-post-office-horizon-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/?p=11#comment-37</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your detailed comment - I have tried to think how I can help. I recall when doing my first case I spent a long time &#039;round the back&#039; walking through the Horizon system at Leeds central post office (now turned into restaurants). I also obtained a lot of downloads from the po&#039;s archives to examine in detail. Remember I was working on behalf of the defendant here and looking for mitigation. I do remember that the problem of sorting out an entry error was investigated. My wife also works in a different bank and tells me the same story. You cash up at the end of the day and any discrepancies have to be sorted then. The number of times she has been late because one of the cashiers has found a difference. In the few cases where the error could not be identified - there was hell to pay! This was the same for you - where you had to be responsible for your errors. In my cases the &#039;errors&#039; were all round sums of similar amounts, occurred regularly and for many months. In both cases when faced with evidence such as gambling debts etc the defendant came clean.

Playing devils advocate I suspect that the po takes the hard line to make sure that postmasters are diligent in their work and are unable to pass off errors as being shoddy work by the staff etc.

I do not know all the circumstances but in my most recent case the postmaster pleaded to false accounting and was able to escape prison for theft owing to our work for the defence team. I do not think I can recall the outcome of the first case which was some time ago (I may not have been told).

Good luck</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your detailed comment &#8211; I have tried to think how I can help. I recall when doing my first case I spent a long time &#8217;round the back&#8217; walking through the Horizon system at Leeds central post office (now turned into restaurants). I also obtained a lot of downloads from the po&#8217;s archives to examine in detail. Remember I was working on behalf of the defendant here and looking for mitigation. I do remember that the problem of sorting out an entry error was investigated. My wife also works in a different bank and tells me the same story. You cash up at the end of the day and any discrepancies have to be sorted then. The number of times she has been late because one of the cashiers has found a difference. In the few cases where the error could not be identified &#8211; there was hell to pay! This was the same for you &#8211; where you had to be responsible for your errors. In my cases the &#8216;errors&#8217; were all round sums of similar amounts, occurred regularly and for many months. In both cases when faced with evidence such as gambling debts etc the defendant came clean.</p>
<p>Playing devils advocate I suspect that the po takes the hard line to make sure that postmasters are diligent in their work and are unable to pass off errors as being shoddy work by the staff etc.</p>
<p>I do not know all the circumstances but in my most recent case the postmaster pleaded to false accounting and was able to escape prison for theft owing to our work for the defence team. I do not think I can recall the outcome of the first case which was some time ago (I may not have been told).</p>
<p>Good luck</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fraud and the Post Office Horizon Computer by steve</title>
		<link>http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/fraud-and-the-post-office-horizon-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/?p=11#comment-36</guid>
		<description>Dear Sir


I left a long comment yesterday. Am I right in assuming it has been moderated out ??!!


regards

Steve


stevedd50@hotmail.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Sir</p>
<p>I left a long comment yesterday. Am I right in assuming it has been moderated out ??!!</p>
<p>regards</p>
<p>Steve</p>
<p><a href="mailto:stevedd50@hotmail.com">stevedd50@hotmail.com</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Fraud and the Post Office Horizon Computer by steve</title>
		<link>http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/fraud-and-the-post-office-horizon-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 11:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/?p=11#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Obviously if people are engaged in criminal behaviour they deserve the full weight of the law to be applied to them.

However, the fact is that, as the postmasters are contractually obliged to immediately make good any shortfalls or discrepancies in the reconciliations, the post office rarely, if ever, makes any attempt to assist the postmaster when reconciliation differences are flagged up thet the postmaster is unable to resolve. They simply recover the monies directly from the postmaster&#039;s income. 

There are also some other facts about the Horizon system which undermine the absolute belief placed in the numbers and reports it produces by the post office. There are several transaction streams with NO AUDIT TRAILS whatsoever making it literally impossible for a postmaster to correct errors after they have happened because it is impossible to prove what the correct entries should have been!!! 

There are also other hardware and software issues impacting on the system&#039;s integrity which I will not go into here as these are matters which are sub-judice. I have seen the evidence myself and have also heard from ex post office trainers (people who trained subpostmasters on the Horizon system) who are scathing about its merits as a &#039;system&#039; 

In theory any errors will be automatically picked up and corrected when the supporting documentation is sent to the post office&#039;s own transactions processing centre. However it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for that to happen for transactions streams where there is no audit trail. If such a situation were allowed to arise in a private company the auditors would quite rightly give the firm an absolute rollocking 

It is very easy to see why some postmasters are tempted to sign off reconciliations where they have not been able to identify reasons for a shortfall in the hope and belief that somehow the error will be identifed by the post office and automatically corrected. They do not believe they will receive any help from the post office and they will get an immediate reduction in their income and, if the &#039;system&#039; is working error corrections will automatically regularise the numbers in the near future. 

Obviously they should resist that temptation because it makes them guily of false accounting even if they have had no benefit whatsoever. 


If the Horizon system really is Excel with a sophisticated front end that would worry me even further !!!  Excel is a fantastic programme. However, it is very easy to misjudge formulas or enter macros which have flaws or which fall over if processing volumes exceed the capacity of the formulas and spreadsheets to process them. Prima facie I would not have thought that Excel should form the basis of the accounts processing of a business processing such massive volumes of work as the post office. 


You make the point that if there was a systems flaw one would expect to see similar problems arising everywhere and not just in a small number of cases. This sounds perfectly reasonable. However, the transaction streams of different post offices can vary massively. Some transaction streams in some post offices may put massive stress on the system&#039;s ability to process them but these streams may be absent in other post offices. One has to look at the specifics of each case. 

Also, there may only be tiny flaws in the system which only arise in exceptional circumstances. However, these may well be enough to create discrepancies of a few tens of thousands of pounds in a small number of offices given that the post office as a whole is dealing with transaction streams measured in hundreds of milions, if not billions, of pounds. These flaws are immaterial to the post office as a whole but may be highly material in terms of individual post offices. Many subpostmasters careers and reputations have been ruined by the automatic assumption that they have somehow sprited monies away because there is an absolute belief in the integrity of the numbers produced by Horizon which is, in fact, missplaced.   


If there is an audit trail then it should be possible to PROVE whether or not the entries being reported by the system are correct or not. The fact is that the post office is not interested in doing that analysis when unexplained differences occur because it can recover any discrepancies from the postmaster. It is also not interested in auditing the system as a system because it would be a PR disaster if flaws were found. 

I understand that your forensic accounting report was from several years ago. Since then there have been unilaterally-imposed changes to the system and several transaction streams have no audit trail. I also understand that your comments only relate to the specific cases you were asked to investigate. 

However, the correct way forward would be for the post office to commission an independent report into the integrity of its systems and to actually help sub postmasters with reconciliation problems rather than immediately deducting from there income often followed by criminal proceedings, ruined businesses and reputations and jail terms. 

I am not condoning criminal behaviour by subpostmasters. I am saying that many have had deductions to their income, been bankrupted and even served prison sentences when in fact they have not had a penny but were simply unable to reconcile differences reported by Horizon. 

A major law firm are shortly to bring a class action and I sincerely hope that the scandal of the way the post office rides roughshod over it subpostmasters is brought into the full glare of publicity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously if people are engaged in criminal behaviour they deserve the full weight of the law to be applied to them.</p>
<p>However, the fact is that, as the postmasters are contractually obliged to immediately make good any shortfalls or discrepancies in the reconciliations, the post office rarely, if ever, makes any attempt to assist the postmaster when reconciliation differences are flagged up thet the postmaster is unable to resolve. They simply recover the monies directly from the postmaster&#8217;s income. </p>
<p>There are also some other facts about the Horizon system which undermine the absolute belief placed in the numbers and reports it produces by the post office. There are several transaction streams with NO AUDIT TRAILS whatsoever making it literally impossible for a postmaster to correct errors after they have happened because it is impossible to prove what the correct entries should have been!!! </p>
<p>There are also other hardware and software issues impacting on the system&#8217;s integrity which I will not go into here as these are matters which are sub-judice. I have seen the evidence myself and have also heard from ex post office trainers (people who trained subpostmasters on the Horizon system) who are scathing about its merits as a &#8216;system&#8217; </p>
<p>In theory any errors will be automatically picked up and corrected when the supporting documentation is sent to the post office&#8217;s own transactions processing centre. However it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for that to happen for transactions streams where there is no audit trail. If such a situation were allowed to arise in a private company the auditors would quite rightly give the firm an absolute rollocking </p>
<p>It is very easy to see why some postmasters are tempted to sign off reconciliations where they have not been able to identify reasons for a shortfall in the hope and belief that somehow the error will be identifed by the post office and automatically corrected. They do not believe they will receive any help from the post office and they will get an immediate reduction in their income and, if the &#8216;system&#8217; is working error corrections will automatically regularise the numbers in the near future. </p>
<p>Obviously they should resist that temptation because it makes them guily of false accounting even if they have had no benefit whatsoever. </p>
<p>If the Horizon system really is Excel with a sophisticated front end that would worry me even further !!!  Excel is a fantastic programme. However, it is very easy to misjudge formulas or enter macros which have flaws or which fall over if processing volumes exceed the capacity of the formulas and spreadsheets to process them. Prima facie I would not have thought that Excel should form the basis of the accounts processing of a business processing such massive volumes of work as the post office. </p>
<p>You make the point that if there was a systems flaw one would expect to see similar problems arising everywhere and not just in a small number of cases. This sounds perfectly reasonable. However, the transaction streams of different post offices can vary massively. Some transaction streams in some post offices may put massive stress on the system&#8217;s ability to process them but these streams may be absent in other post offices. One has to look at the specifics of each case. </p>
<p>Also, there may only be tiny flaws in the system which only arise in exceptional circumstances. However, these may well be enough to create discrepancies of a few tens of thousands of pounds in a small number of offices given that the post office as a whole is dealing with transaction streams measured in hundreds of milions, if not billions, of pounds. These flaws are immaterial to the post office as a whole but may be highly material in terms of individual post offices. Many subpostmasters careers and reputations have been ruined by the automatic assumption that they have somehow sprited monies away because there is an absolute belief in the integrity of the numbers produced by Horizon which is, in fact, missplaced.   </p>
<p>If there is an audit trail then it should be possible to PROVE whether or not the entries being reported by the system are correct or not. The fact is that the post office is not interested in doing that analysis when unexplained differences occur because it can recover any discrepancies from the postmaster. It is also not interested in auditing the system as a system because it would be a PR disaster if flaws were found. </p>
<p>I understand that your forensic accounting report was from several years ago. Since then there have been unilaterally-imposed changes to the system and several transaction streams have no audit trail. I also understand that your comments only relate to the specific cases you were asked to investigate. </p>
<p>However, the correct way forward would be for the post office to commission an independent report into the integrity of its systems and to actually help sub postmasters with reconciliation problems rather than immediately deducting from there income often followed by criminal proceedings, ruined businesses and reputations and jail terms. </p>
<p>I am not condoning criminal behaviour by subpostmasters. I am saying that many have had deductions to their income, been bankrupted and even served prison sentences when in fact they have not had a penny but were simply unable to reconcile differences reported by Horizon. </p>
<p>A major law firm are shortly to bring a class action and I sincerely hope that the scandal of the way the post office rides roughshod over it subpostmasters is brought into the full glare of publicity.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fraud and the Post Office Horizon Computer by scott</title>
		<link>http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/fraud-and-the-post-office-horizon-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 00:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/?p=11#comment-34</guid>
		<description>Thankyou for your reply
It is very difficult to investigate the system now that a lot of payments and deposits are automated.. genuine errors cannot be corrected like they use to be able to be.  Giro deposit slips are now automated.. so if a customer pays in £1000 and staff accidentally keys in £10000, if its not spotted immediately then the subpostmaster is liable for 9000. There is no paperwork to check the deposits on the system with what was actually deposited. Previously a printout of the deposits were checked with the paperwork to support them on a daily basis and this paperwork was despatched to Alliance and Leicester. Mistakes were picked up by them and  a correction flagged to your system. Now, there is no paperwork.. the customers deposit books are simply scanned and returned to the customer.  My branch regularly had 3 staff working flat out with this type of deposit and all the other automated deposits such as savings accounts. At the end of the day there is only a list of transactions but nothing to support them. In other words the audit trail is flawed. It puts everyone at 100% accuracy otherwise you become liable.  When i telephoned the internal helpline and asked how transaction corrections would be generated by the automated system, the response was &quot; I dont know &quot;. I had a discrepency of £9000 which could not be found amongst 100&#039;s of automated transactions. I decided not to report it immediately as i had learned by experience that the postoffice would take it from my remuneration without question. I was praying for a transaction correction to arrive.  This would have happened under the previous system.  However i was audited and am now being prosecuted.  I am not sure what else i could have done at the time apart from going bust!!  I am aware of this being a criminal offence in law but i believe that my contract has been compromised with the new system. My system was definitely glitchy at times, some times 2 printouts of the same section on horizon would show differing amounts depending on which computer was used.  During an office balance, the stamps on hand were more than the previous weeks totals which had tallied closely with the system that week even though i had not received any stock.. this was the £1700 i have mentioned... i paid it but i never got to the bottom of that one.. really was a mystery. Other things occurred now and again.  I am not lying about this.. when you work 6 days a week with it you see very occasional oddities that usually iron themselves out.. but not this time for me. Wish me luck if i go to prison</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thankyou for your reply<br />
It is very difficult to investigate the system now that a lot of payments and deposits are automated.. genuine errors cannot be corrected like they use to be able to be.  Giro deposit slips are now automated.. so if a customer pays in £1000 and staff accidentally keys in £10000, if its not spotted immediately then the subpostmaster is liable for 9000. There is no paperwork to check the deposits on the system with what was actually deposited. Previously a printout of the deposits were checked with the paperwork to support them on a daily basis and this paperwork was despatched to Alliance and Leicester. Mistakes were picked up by them and  a correction flagged to your system. Now, there is no paperwork.. the customers deposit books are simply scanned and returned to the customer.  My branch regularly had 3 staff working flat out with this type of deposit and all the other automated deposits such as savings accounts. At the end of the day there is only a list of transactions but nothing to support them. In other words the audit trail is flawed. It puts everyone at 100% accuracy otherwise you become liable.  When i telephoned the internal helpline and asked how transaction corrections would be generated by the automated system, the response was &#8221; I dont know &#8220;. I had a discrepency of £9000 which could not be found amongst 100&#8242;s of automated transactions. I decided not to report it immediately as i had learned by experience that the postoffice would take it from my remuneration without question. I was praying for a transaction correction to arrive.  This would have happened under the previous system.  However i was audited and am now being prosecuted.  I am not sure what else i could have done at the time apart from going bust!!  I am aware of this being a criminal offence in law but i believe that my contract has been compromised with the new system. My system was definitely glitchy at times, some times 2 printouts of the same section on horizon would show differing amounts depending on which computer was used.  During an office balance, the stamps on hand were more than the previous weeks totals which had tallied closely with the system that week even though i had not received any stock.. this was the £1700 i have mentioned&#8230; i paid it but i never got to the bottom of that one.. really was a mystery. Other things occurred now and again.  I am not lying about this.. when you work 6 days a week with it you see very occasional oddities that usually iron themselves out.. but not this time for me. Wish me luck if i go to prison</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fraud and the Post Office Horizon Computer by admin</title>
		<link>http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/fraud-and-the-post-office-horizon-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/?p=11#comment-33</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your reply - I think the cases that I have encountered may differ from the ones you mention. These were criminals who blamed the Horizon system for their greed. If you have a loss of £2000 every week what do you do - report it to the Post Office. If it happens the next week you do the same - something is wrong and needs investigating even if you have to do it yourself. You do not leave it for six months until you are audited and found out. No excuse for being a criminal I am afraid - but I expect there are cases where the PO is ignorant and does not deal with problems properly - these are not the cases I dealt with. Many thanks for the comment please send me evidence of systematic failure in Horizon and I would be happy to help. Both my cases were guilty and they pleaded as such.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your reply &#8211; I think the cases that I have encountered may differ from the ones you mention. These were criminals who blamed the Horizon system for their greed. If you have a loss of £2000 every week what do you do &#8211; report it to the Post Office. If it happens the next week you do the same &#8211; something is wrong and needs investigating even if you have to do it yourself. You do not leave it for six months until you are audited and found out. No excuse for being a criminal I am afraid &#8211; but I expect there are cases where the PO is ignorant and does not deal with problems properly &#8211; these are not the cases I dealt with. Many thanks for the comment please send me evidence of systematic failure in Horizon and I would be happy to help. Both my cases were guilty and they pleaded as such.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fraud and the Post Office Horizon Computer by scott</title>
		<link>http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/fraud-and-the-post-office-horizon-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fraudadvice.co.uk/?p=11#comment-32</guid>
		<description>I am a subpostmaster and currently in the same position as the &#039;criminals&#039; you mention in your article.  You are incorrect in your assumption that the post office often bear losses. I reported to them  a strange occurrence with the system at my branch showing £1700 worth of stamps in my system which i had not got in the branch. They immediately took that amount out of my remuneration without any checks of how Horizon could have shown this inflated amount. You seem to think that these people should be sent to prison.  The class action now being brought by Shoosmiths will show that the system is flawed. You clearly have absolutely no idea that subpostmasters are backed into a corner and are expected to pay discrepancies immediately when the postoffice system can take up to 6 months to correct errors that are in the postmasters favour.  Obviously you think these criminals are a danger to society which is why you think it was a just outcome</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a subpostmaster and currently in the same position as the &#8216;criminals&#8217; you mention in your article.  You are incorrect in your assumption that the post office often bear losses. I reported to them  a strange occurrence with the system at my branch showing £1700 worth of stamps in my system which i had not got in the branch. They immediately took that amount out of my remuneration without any checks of how Horizon could have shown this inflated amount. You seem to think that these people should be sent to prison.  The class action now being brought by Shoosmiths will show that the system is flawed. You clearly have absolutely no idea that subpostmasters are backed into a corner and are expected to pay discrepancies immediately when the postoffice system can take up to 6 months to correct errors that are in the postmasters favour.  Obviously you think these criminals are a danger to society which is why you think it was a just outcome</p>
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